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  1. #1

    Criticals and Damage Effects

    A little background, I play a druid and drop a lot of buff spells on my animal companion. I wanted to automate the effects of these spells, such as produce flame.
    Effect: Produce Flame; DMG: 1d6+5 melee,fire
    And while I've been using that for a while, when I dug into the details, I realized this isn't behaving correctly on critical hits. It's doubling the damage bonus but not adding a second die.
    I just played around and discovered this effect does what I expect. It adds 1d6+5 on a normal hit and 2d6+10 on a critical. But should the effect have to be coded this way?
    Effect: Produce Flame; DMG: 1d6+5 melee,fire; DMG: 1d6 melee,critical,fire
    Also, the critical tag is not mentioned in the two 3.5 wikis. Is critical a range or a damage type? I'm presuming range, from the behavior and where I have to place it in the effect.

  2. #2
    Kelrugem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentDragon64 View Post
    A little background, I play a druid and drop a lot of buff spells on my animal companion. I wanted to automate the effects of these spells, such as produce flame.
    Effect: Produce Flame; DMG: 1d6+5 melee,fire
    And while I've been using that for a while, when I dug into the details, I realized this isn't behaving correctly on critical hits. It's doubling the damage bonus but not adding a second die.
    I just played around and discovered this effect does what I expect. It adds 1d6+5 on a normal hit and 2d6+10 on a critical. But should the effect have to be coded this way?
    Effect: Produce Flame; DMG: 1d6+5 melee,fire; DMG: 1d6 melee,critical,fire
    Also, the critical tag is not mentioned in the two 3.5 wikis. Is critical a range or a damage type? I'm presuming range, from the behavior and where I have to place it in the effect.
    Yes, additional dice are never multiplied in crits, that is actually a rule for both, 3.5e and PF1 Only bonus numbers are multiplied, not bonus dice, except when mentioned otherwise of course (like weapon damage dice which have a multiplier). That is the reason why sneak attack is for example also not multiplied for crits

    Yes, with critical as damage type you can code effects which are only applied for crits (other special types are precision and spell, and yes, the wiki lacks them) But before you add such a critical effect I would check whether you understood your magical effect correctly, because, as mentioned, it is a rule that bonus dice are not multiplied (When it is multiplied, then the text normally mentions it, like Flaming Burst mentions that there is an additional d10 for crits)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelrugem View Post
    Yes, additional dice are never multiplied in crits, that is actually a rule for both, 3.5e and PF1 Only bonus numbers are multiplied, not bonus dice, except when mentioned otherwise of course (like weapon damage dice which have a multiplier). That is the reason why sneak attack is for example also not multiplied for crits

    Yes, with critical as damage type you can code effects which are only applied for crits (other special types are precision and spell, and yes, the wiki lacks them) But before you add such a critical effect I would check whether you understood your magical effect correctly, because, as mentioned, it is a rule that bonus dice are not multiplied (When it is multiplied, then the text normally mentions it, like Flaming Burst mentions that there is an additional d10 for crits)
    I believe where our DM got the idea that it should be doubled is from p184 of the core rules:
    Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack roll can score a critical hit. A spell attack that requires no attack roll cannot score a critical hit. If a spell causes ability damage or drain (see Appendix 1), the damage or drain is doubled on a critical hit.

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    Kelrugem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentDragon64 View Post
    I believe where our DM got the idea that it should be doubled is from p184 of the core rules:
    Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack roll can score a critical hit. A spell attack that requires no attack roll cannot score a critical hit. If a spell causes ability damage or drain (see Appendix 1), the damage or drain is doubled on a critical hit.
    ah, yeah, that is another exception I now read about that spell, and indeed it is more like that you have a weapon-like spell here; so, an effect would not be the correct approach (because it does not create DMG itself, it is just added as a bonus to other damage things and then my mentioned rule from above applies). Rather create a damage button for that spell and roll attack before that; FG will cater for crits when the damage comes from a damage button

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