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  1. #1

    Question about ranged attack

    Hello,

    I wonder if there is a way to integrate attack maluses on ranged attack bases on increment factor ? I mainly talk about d20 based games like Pathfinder, D&D5 and Starfinder :

    Since FG seems able to calculate the direct distance between you and the foe you targeted, i though you can add some attack modifier which depend on this distance. This modifier would apply only on attacks/weapons with a defined range increment.

    Is there some mod for the aformentioned ruleset which add this functionnality ?

    Thanks !

  2. #2
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    I believe there is an extension on the DMsGuild that does this but I'm not sure. There's nothing in the base code of any ruleset that does it.

    An issue with automating something like this is that there are always exceptions - abilities or spells or whatever that change the range penalty or remove it altogether. So it's probably better not to automate it really.
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  3. #3
    I don't know. For ranged weapons in Starfinder (for example), effects or abilities that changes how the range penalties works are really uncommon ...

  4. #4
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    The main issue is that the target distance as measured and displayed on the targeting arrow is not currently available to FG ruleset code. So the ruleset itself has to do coding for measurement.

    It is possible, as some extensions and a couple of ruleset do it (D&D 2e and Savage Worlds are two I'm aware of). I'm sure more rulesets will begin to implement something like this in the future (it's in the back of my mind for Pathfinder Second Edition). But, as Zacchaeus mentions, there will always be exceptions that the players/GMs will need to be aware of - like adjustments for height, as well as ability effects that may not be possible within the ruleset.

    EDIT: and... 5 hours after posting this there is now some experimental API functions that can return distance. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...l-APIs-for-FGU
    Last edited by Trenloe; January 16th, 2021 at 23:05.

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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zacchaeus View Post
    I believe there is an extension on the DMsGuild that does this but I'm not sure. There's nothing in the base code of any ruleset that does it.

    An issue with automating something like this is that there are always exceptions - abilities or spells or whatever that change the range penalty or remove it altogether. So it's probably better not to automate it really.
    Just pointing out from a user POV here.

    For an automation system to know how to do the automation, which can include many if/then state factors for rules being processed rapidly for the GM and players.
    That incorporates some form of an execute/override pop-up for the GM, so that as those exceptions to automation come along, the GM can easily in the moment override that for what they need.
    Rather than each and every time they just have to full manually do it.

    I'd point out here on this, over hundreds to thousands of end user hours, that would provide a lot of added up time savings, of not having to do it all manually every time at the table.
    Allowing automation to go off when it's right for us, and just clicking the override button when it pops up to ask the GM to double check the automated results before tabulating to the game state.

    Yes exceptions to rules are abundant in many RPGs, but to just use that as the reason to leave the GM and players to basically keep doing the manual calculation efforts without aid. That don't seem a strong feature design, from the GM POV here, as far as what brings strong value to the table over disc/meet/zoom, books, and dice.


    there are lots of options on the market for sharing visual aids, getting RNG output, and sharing game rules. But nothing else could offer rule set automation to significantly reduce the table time soaked to be the GM CPU calculating all that.
    And automation of as much as could be, that pauses before commit for GM approve or override, would be a powerful value to offer, that only a well designed VTT could.

    Automate to override interrupt, provide the value of automation calculation, rather than just don't bother doing any of it cause exceptions happen to exist. If you are aware of a possible exception , then you can still do the automation, just ask the GM before applying it is all. If you allow them to override results in they want to in that moment, then you give the value of the power of automation while retaining the flexibility a GM needs.

  6. #6
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    Sorry, but that's just not practical. In 30 years of gaming I can't think of any occasion where my players have ever taken a shot where there would be a range penalty, and in any case in the vast majority of situations the areas that the combat is taking place in is small enough that range penalties would never apply anyway. So, from this users POV I don't want a vast pop up with a hundred options on it to cater for every conceivable variation that could apply to every single shot that the player takes. And yes, I know what you'll say is make it an option - which adds even more complication to something which is very simple. Now Starfinder might be different since it involves space combat (I believe) which presumably takes place at greater ranges. But for anything else range penalties probably don't figure very often during normal game play. And if it does it can be simply handled manually on those extremely rare occasions.
    If you need to contact customer support or if there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea to the customer support portal https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassia...stomer/portals

  7. #7
    Yup, range penalty impact frequently spaceship combat.

    But the space combat may need an overall update.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zacchaeus View Post
    Sorry, but that's just not practical. In 30 years of gaming I can't think of any occasion where my players have ever taken a shot where there would be a range penalty, and in any case in the vast majority of situations the areas that the combat is taking place in is small enough that range penalties would never apply anyway. So, from this users POV I don't want a vast pop up with a hundred options on it to cater for every conceivable variation that could apply to every single shot that the player takes. And yes, I know what you'll say is make it an option - which adds even more complication to something which is very simple. Now Starfinder might be different since it involves space combat (I believe) which presumably takes place at greater ranges. But for anything else range penalties probably don't figure very often during normal game play. And if it does it can be simply handled manually on those extremely rare occasions.
    Well, dont assume every group is like yours. If range penalty has not come up in 30 years of play then you have a very specific playstyle 😃
    With especially with unity and the ability to create large maps there is a lot of range penalties in our games (pathfinder).
    Now I do agree that pop ups are a really really bad way of doing this. And if the game code can not access the distance directly it might be hard.

    But what would be great was for an option on ranged weapon, a table that would let you fill out several distances, and their corrensponding penalty and a modifier. Include both to hit and damage modifiers.
    That way you could incorporate:
    Point blank shot (+1 to hit within 30ft)
    Touch attack firearms within first range increment
    And range penalties including if you have far shot or not
    And there is a feat that lets you ignore the first -2 on ranged attacks.

    Alternativly if the distance was accessible to effects, that would be perfect.
    IFT: range (<30); ATK:+1 ranged; DMG: +1

    If distance was accessible from effects there would also probably be an easier way for FG to get auras automated.

  9. #9
    Zacchaeus's Avatar
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    The 30 years bit was an exaggeration, I'll admit. But I don't think this comes up often enough to merit any great time waste to just add a -2 or whatever modifier to the shot. Having said all that I see some interesting API's that Moon Wizard has added to the client recently - so maybe .... https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...l-APIs-for-FGU
    If you need to contact customer support or if there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea to the customer support portal https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassia...stomer/portals

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